Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: ProactiveMD.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: From ProactiveMD, this is Healthcare Explained. I'm Jeremy Vanderkneuf. I'm very happy to introduce our guest today. It's Sally Pace, who's the CEO of the Connect Healthcare collaboration. But I'll stop there, Sally, because I'd like you to have a chance to introduce yourself and tell our listeners who you are and what you do.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Well, I'm thrilled to be on this show because as you know, our team is huge fans of the work that you and your team do. So it's great to be a guest because we think you're fabulous. So CHC is an employee benefits marketing firm, and we were designed to kind of weave a thread between all of the players in the healthcare space, and we can talk a little bit more about how we do that. But we're a benefits marketing firm that not only helps with, with marketing point solutions, we also have clinical advocacy and benefits advocacy. And then we're also pretty, pretty well known for a platform that we built called the Granite List.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Wonderful. Looking forward to diving into that. Tell us, prior to chc, prior to Granite List, tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into employee benefits into this crazy world. Exactly. Yeah. Nobody chooses it. Right.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Why would exactly.
I. My background is in marketing and communications, and I've worked for some of the most incredible brands in our country and in some really fascinating industries and realized that there was a common theme in each one of them in my role that could carry over into this space. So I worked at hgtv, but at hgtv, I didn't get to do the fun remodeling projects. They stuck me on building if it was something that had to do with construction, and I am no builder and had to be explained to the viewer. It was under, in writing, it was under my purview.
Then I moved on into the fascinating world of Auto Parts. AutoZone was my next home. And we did all this education around parts and service to the store personnel, and I got to lead a lot of that. And the thought was, again, if Sally could put it in a way that she can understand it, pretty much anyone can. Then that carried over to about 20 plus years of mine in the financial industry at one of the largest off Wall street firms where my husband can attest, I'm no, you know, financial savant. But if we could put things in terms that layman's terms, if we could explain it to man on the street, then we really were able to move the needle on engagement and so along that same time frame, I had been kind of moonlighting married to a benefits consultant now almost 28 years and saw firsthand from what he was experiencing as he worked at some of the largest firms in the, in the country, this push and pull of wanting to bring in innovation into a plan. But how do you explain it to a member or how does an innovative solution sell itself to the benefits leader community?
And so that was sort of the genesis of my transition out of these other roles, but carrying what my core skill set was into this role.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Wonderful. That's quite a background. And you know, I have so many questions, I have so many questions about why on every one of those HGTV shows, on every single one, how is the initial estimate for the remodel off by so much? But you know, it's always, hey, we didn't realize we had to dig up the sewer.
Yeah, but I'm sure you're under an NDA, so, so let's talk instead about the healthcare side of things, which is probably what our listeners are most interested about, or at least they'll pretend to be. So, you know, how do you engage members in their care? I think that's one of the things that we've seen is one of the most challenging aspects of healthcare. Is it? It is so esoteric. Right. There's so many words, there's so many acronyms, challenges with health literacy even among otherwise well educated populations when it comes to people's health and healthcare consumerism, there's just not a lot of, not a lot of training out there. So talk to us a little bit about that and the approach that you've taken to be able to help employees, help members understand their health and their benefits.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Sure.
So, you know, I, even though I'm not really a numbers person, I'm going to use two, two statistics that are kind of our, our guiding, our guiding light or I guess the light at the end of the tunnel that we want to overcome. And that is a recent study released shared that of the, of the employer participants in this survey, 68% reported that they believe their employees underutilize their benefits.
At the same time, we all, we, we in this universe hear the statistics that only 12% of the US population is healthcare literate. And so you've got the people that are providing the roadmap for healthcare, the employer, the feeling like the employee isn't really taking advantage of what's available. And yet you've got the employee who doesn't really know how to navigate those solutions, even if they did know that they were available.
Like I said, we have several different business lines built to address this. The first is in the benefits marketing arena. So we spend a lot of time helping Point Solutions build out their messaging, their brand branding. Y' all know this because you live it. But so many startups especially don't realize that it's a two step sales process. You don't oftentimes go direct to an employer and just magically get in. There's generally the broker is involved if you go and so you've got to win them over and then educate the employer.
In the employer universe, is it the CFO or the HR leader? Those are two different approaches. So we, we manage that, that, that brand awareness, that messaging and then help on down to the end user. What is the employee going to experience if they plug in your solution?
But we don't just use marketing tactics, we also use people. So our advocacy program that has two different facets. We use clinicians to help really pull the plan design together to bring in people that are going to help steer particularly that 20% of the population is driving 80% of the cost and really give that high touch experience, especially if they don't have access to an on site nearsight clinic. How do you really help move the needle? And what we know is that people who are in a tough spot really do need people to guide them. So we offer that same thing with our benefits advocacy which is kind of a nuanced offering and it's.
Even though we're a marketing firm, it's hard to.
It's one of our more niche lines and that is we help Point Solutions who don't necessarily need licensed enrollers to get people into their program and don't need clinicians. They just need a very kind, well educated patient person to explain the offering and get that plan member onboarded into a particular solution. So think specialty drug, carve out 340B programs, things like that.
Our last business line is the Granite List and that really is designed to be this high level marketplace. If you think about open table for restaurants or TripAdvisor for hotels, we've built this community for the benefits arena where benefits leaders can come and be educated about the point solutions that are available to them, the things that they need to know about to help put their plan design together and move the needle for their employees.
So we see all of those as really kind of carving away at that problem that employers face, saying that 68% feel like their employees don't use their benefits that are available and that 12% of the population, it doesn't understand.
And when we do that, we're able to drive tremendous amounts of employee engagement.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: That's wonderful. And full disclosure, Proactive MD is a member of the Granite List as well. Personally enjoyed getting to help beta test it in the early years.
But it's interesting when you talk about a marketplace of solutions. Can you tell us a little bit about how the Granite List works to vet and curate the list of solutions that are presented to employers? And how does that look?
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Sure.
So we, and let me define what. When we talk about solutions on the Granite List, it's a much broader scale than just what you think about for medical well being.
So there's work comp solutions, anything that touches your human capital spend. So we even have solutions on there that are executive relocation firms. So anything that a benefits leader would need to know about to help further their business or improve their business.
And you know, we, we really, we built it at a time that really was very fortunate for us, unfortunate for the rest of the world. And that was right about 2020.
And that's when conferences to totally shut down, nobody was meeting each other in person. Online was kind of the way to go.
And yet there was this whole vendor fatigue because I think every salesperson from every point solution on the planet decided they were going to pound the phone pavement and just smile and dial. And then you also had just this overwhelming sense of fear in the benefit leaders, space brokers, employers.
And so we really leaned into some of the organizations and networks that we were already a part of to say, hey, we're building this. Jeremy did get to get a big sneak peek in the early days, but saying, okay, we, we know you, we want to start. We are connectors at heart. And so we started with who we knew and what we knew and built from there and from there, you know, hundreds of solutions had joined the Granite List set since then. But it really kind of, it was a, you know, kind of that start small and then grow big idea. Not necessarily our own backyard, but the backyards of the networks that we ran in.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Excellent. Sally. One of the things that, you know, we try to do on this podcast is really be able to help employers and, and benefits consultants who listen on what are some of the key things that, that they need to know. So you come from a ton of experience and background both on the marketing, the engagement side, but also of course, the healthcare benefits side for a number of years. So with what you're seeing in the trends in the health insurance marketplace and I should say the health benefits marketplace and employee wellbeing marketplace. What do you think are some of the key trends that employers need to keep their eyes on or understand about how benefits are changing and developing?
Well.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: I think the first, first and foremost is this overused word of transparency.
But I think that drum has been beaten enough that it's actually starting to mean something. So we really are starting to see employers understand that they can bring vendors into the fold that are completely transparent, that can be really good business partners of theirs and that can help move the needle. And I think that's across the board. It's not. I mean, PBMs are the natural one that get beat up over that. But I think it's, you know, it's across the board, any type of point solution, pricing, transparency, outcomes transparency.
So that's one.
The other is that, you know, I think for the past couple of years we've seen, and Covid was kind of the launch of this, but we saw this massive shift towards technology and then of course, the, the groundswell of AI and all these wonderful AI tools.
But when it comes to employee benefits, you're dealing with two of the most personal things to an individual, their health or the health of their family and their finances.
And so we're seeing that pendulum shift back to a healthy mix of tech driven. AI driven.
Yeah, high technology with incredibly high touch, bringing a team of people in to solve for whatever the issue is or educate on that issue. Not everybody wants to go to an app to, to learn about something. Many do. But when it's really serious, that's when they want a person. I think y' all can relate because you've built a similar, you know, you're a very specific, targeted piece of this puzzle, but you've built a similar thing where you have wonderful technology tools, but you also have really great people backing it up. And so that's. We see that happening in the marketplace again, across the board.
[00:13:17] Speaker B: I think what you just said around technology and this shift towards that. But the importance of people, I think is really key. I mean, we speaking for Proactive md, right. Our mission is to reunite the provider and the patient.
And we view technology as being a way to enable that. But we're also seeing a lot of trends, you know, nationally, internationally, where we're seeing technologies being deployed, whether it's virtual care that's not seen as a supplement or it's not seen as a, an opportunity to increase access to care, but you know, it's being sold as this can replace a person. Now that was just in the last five years. Now we're seeing, with the rise of AI, like you mentioned, we're seeing more of this trend where technology can replace the person.
Where do you see in benefits the line needing to be drawn to that point of still having great people. But where do you see that drive towards technology and that drive towards AI going as it relates to people and healthcare consumers and how they relate to their own health?
[00:14:22] Speaker A: Well, you know, a million different ways, but a couple of specifics and I'm going to do what an employer should be looking at too. One, you know this, the rise of AI and the rise of technology has allowed for more transparency in data.
Data is, is prevalent in so many different industries, but it's been kind of, you know, masked in healthcare. And I think that that AI and technology has allowed that, that curtain to fall in many regards. And so you're starting to see employers get a better handle on or a better grasp on the fact that that data as it relates to their plan, spend it is theirs and they can do something with it. So it's actionable data. And that's what our advocacy team builds their entire model around is high tech, AI driven data that allows for a human to come in behind it and do something with it at the employee level.
I feel like I'm trying to go back to 2020. I don't even know why so many good examples of this. But you think about, or I think about my parents are, you know, late 70s, early 80s and even, you know, during COVID even they had to learn how to, what a QR code was, how to use it, install the Uber Eats app on their phone, which meant they had to have a smartphone to do it.
And so you're seeing this generational trickle down of understanding at high level.
Amazon's built on an algorithm when you go shopping on Amazon, so it shows you things that are relevant to you. I think a lot of, in layman's terms, people are starting to get an understanding of.
In my healthcare journey, I can use these similar tools to access better care, for better outcomes.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: That's wonderful.
If there is one thing, just one thing that you think employers right now, and benefits professionals working on behalf of employers, if there is just one thing that they can do to improve the outcomes.
We've talked about transparency, we talked about cost, but one thing to improve the outcomes of the health of the populations that they serve, whether it's their employees, their families, et cetera, what is that one thing?
[00:16:46] Speaker A: I think especially employers that have jumped out on a limb and have taken the level funded, self funded leap of faith.
I think what they can do that is, is that bedrock of building their plan is sit down with their, their benefits consultant and really take time to look at the data because that is your roadmap to what you need, what, what solutions need to be plugged in, what trends are you seeing in that plan and how do you bring in solutions to address them. And you know, one of the other, you know, what I would also encourage employers to think about with their consultants is really chipping away at the highest cost, claimants first. It's kind of like paying off credit card debt where you take your big, you try and chip away at the big amounts of debt slowly but surely. And so when you have a small percentage of the population driving a large percent of the cost, if you can bring in a solution. I'm going to give an example.
On our clinical advocacy side. We have a client who has 5,000 plan members, has 10 employees that are spending close to $700,000 on pharmacy.
They have a specialty drug program built in that these 10 people were not taking advantage of.
And so we used high tech, high touch data coupled with high touch human capital.
And we wrote letters. The clinician assigned to that, that group handwritten letter with the piece of the open enrollment or the enrollment document that they needed to be looking at and said let's talk about this, call me when you can.
Within days again, you're just targeting 10 people.
But $700,000 to the plan and savings is significant. And so when you can start to chip away at that 10 people is manageable because if you get half of them or even a third of them, you're making a real dent. And then just think about what you can do to deploy those resources back to your people and tell them about it too. We're huge proponents of don't just do these things, but explain the why. Explain that this is going to allow us to all get new standing desks or a bigger salary increase in 2026 if we can accomplish these things. Because people want to work towards accomplishment and achievement, but sometimes they just simply don't know.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: That really resonates. I was at an open enrollment meeting a few months ago for one of our clients and this is a managed care program.
And so you know, their referral decisions are a big part of what Proactive MD provides. In that case is helping navigate members to high quality and cost efficient providers. Quality always coming first. But you know, in some cases that means that the patients, what they assumed was their first choice, you know, wasn't what the physician, nurse practitioner, patient advocate were recommending for that patient.
They thought they would go to the outpatient hospital, but there's a ambulatory surgical center with better outcomes and for that matter, substantially lower costs as well.
And we use that open enrollment meeting to have that conversation with the members to help them see, hey, we're talking about the difference in cost between a bunion removal between this independent podiatrist and getting it done at this hospital affiliated physician is an annual bonus, right?
And when we look at the difference in an orthopedic surgery, you're talking about the salary of a staff person right there just in the cost savings. And it was really interesting to see the employees respond kind of in real time to that. And I think to your point, it's just something that's not part of the education, or at least it maybe it never needed to be until the last few decades as we've seen the way health care trends increase the way they are. But I love what what you and the Granite list and CHC are doing to help spread that message farther and wider than I think proactive MD by itself could, or the benefits consultants that we work with as well.
So, Sally, we like to take just a few minutes to ask a few questions. We never know if these are gonna make it into the show or not, depending on how comfortable people are on answering them. So let's start with this one. If you were to describe healthcare using up to three songs, which songs would you choose?
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Okay, well, little fun fact, I'm from Memphis, Tennessee, the home of blues and rock and roll.
And so I'm gonna. I'm gonna go with three different Memphis artists.
And the first one, it's gonna be the most well known, Elvis Presley, Suspicious Minds.
So there is so much distrust. And you know the line from we can't go on together with I'm not gonna sing these, by the way, so do not ask me that.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: But, well, we don't have the rights anyway.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: We get soon on together with Suspicious Minds. I think, you know, there is this need to fix the gap in the trust of the healthcare system.
Next, Otis Redding. Because Otis is basically benefits poetry, but hard to handle that song, really. Thinking about the current state of healthcare and its complexity, thinking about how it is really hard to navigate our system as it is. And we're so proud at CHC to play a variety of roles in really helping people understand.
And there's a line in that song that says, actions speak louder than words. And so we love this community that we've built through the Granite list to really kind of serve as a true educational platform. And then the last one, one of my personal favorite songs, it's a mashup of a Memphis musician and a non Memphian, but B.B. king and the band, you two have a song called When Love Comes to Town that they play.
And I really think that, that there's a line in that that says, I was a sailor, I was lost at sea, I was under the waves before love rescued me.
And I think that that speaks so much to what we've talked about throughout this show, and that is that benefits works with soul, not just spreadsheets. And so it is that perfect mix of high tech and high touch, a little bit of love thrown in.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: Those are absolutely fantastic answers, Sally. And all three, well, four great artists and personal favorites as well. So it's nice to have somebody from one of the music capitals of America on.
I mean, I say this as somebody who spent 15 years in Columbia, South Carolina. We can claim Hootie and the Blowfish. I lived on Hootie and the Blowfish Boulevard, but there's not a whole lot that you can choose from Columbia, South Carolina, beyond that. So good thing we had somebody from Memphis. We like to end the show with just kind of parting words of wisdom. Sally, as our guests, I'd like to ask you any parting words of wisdom for our listeners today?
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Well, I'll just say, you know, it's such a cliche term that a rising tide lifts all ships, but that really is true, and I think we're seeing that now more than ever in the healthcare space.
When you've got organizations like yours, mine, a number of the partners I know y' all work with that are also part of the granite list that we work with as well.
Coming together for the greater good to say we know that there's an issue that needs to be fixed in the healthcare broader benefits space for the hardworking people that live in this country.
And we're going to roll up our sleeves and do something about it.
One person can make a difference, certainly. But collectively, when we all roll up our sleeves together, we're unstoppable. And that's really exciting to me to think about what our future looks like collectively. And I'm really proud that y' all are part of that.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: Sally, it's been an absolute pleasure and I love also having someone on who, you know, is able to look at the healthcare benefits world and not so cynical to not still keep that, that hope and that that drive to keep doing the good work to make benefits accessible, affordable and high quality for members across the country. Well, Sally, it has been a pleasure. Our guest was Sally Pace, CEO of Connect Healthcare Collaboration and the Granite List, and also obviously a connoisseur of fine Memphis music. So with that, this has been healthcare explained with ProactiveMD. I'm Jeremy Vanderkinife. Thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you next time.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: Proactivemdash.
